03/01/2012

Comments from full member consultation on MUST employees

 

In the interests of continued transparency we are publishing below ALL the comments (both for and against) so far received from Full Members in the online consultation exercise. There is clearly overwhelming support for the Board's proposals - full details of the figures (numbers and %) will be published when the consultation closes.

 

These are all the comments received so far and are unedited except to remove personal identification information: 

 

Long overdue and in my view essential to progressing the organisation.

 

Provided any MUST member levy to pay said person/people is within reason.

 

We pay in money for the eventual purchase from those Yanks, so any losses towards costs must be minimal. Yes to staff, but not many please.

 

Just stunning you have got so far on pure volunteer work!

 

Strongly agree. But will inevitably lead to additional costs/investment  if CEO wants to/ is asked to achieve specific targets. Fund-raising part of role - but shouldn't dominate.

 

I would change my mind if there looked a realistic possibility of there being a chance of owning the whole/part of Man U.  At the moment it looks years away and increasing our costs may not in my view solve this.

 

absolutely no problem with this proposal, its a credit that there aren't already paid employees.

 

Obviously provided the finances are acceptable

 

I have noticed that the organization is growing rapidly and the succeed with further plans, paid employees are a must in these situations however maybe on a temp basis? xxxxxx

 

About bloody time! Dunc has done sterling work and it's high time he's paid for it

 

The salary offered to the CEO should be reasonable but not excessive. As regards employing a graduate intern, I do not approve of exploitation of young graduates. The graduate should be paib a proper salary commensurate with their qualification.    xxxxxxx

 

WHAT LEVEL OF BASIC SALARY IS PROPOSED  AND INCENTIVES SHOULD BE CAPPED

 

Long overdue by the sound of it!

 

I agree that in order to adopt a more professional approach going forward it is essential to have paid employees. Achieving the correct balance between salaried staff and voluntary contribution is key to the future success of the organisation.    Appropriate remuneration for Duncam Drasdo is long overdue.    Yours sincerely    Txxxxxxx

 

If it will help the cause move forward and continue the fight to get the yanks out I our club then yes most definatly! I would  be willing to help the fight in Belfast if possible.   xxxxx

 

I am pleased to give you 100% support.  Thank you for all your hard work.

 

Re the proposal for one or more graduate interns (below). Whilst pay might be considered less important than the value of the work experience for the individual/s appointed, I would be FUNDAMENTALLY AGAINST unpaid or expenses-only internships, as has become the norm in politics, PR, charities, and many large companies lately. These rule out many of the young graduates who most need such experience - not having the right connections to find internships (or jobs) easily, but unable to afford to work for nothing. (Incidentally, I am a retired company director, so have no personal interest in the problem - but much past experience of graduate recruitment.) xxxxxxxx

 

experience etc in campaigning using facebook,twitter etc    use prper recruitment procedures i.e person spec and essential and desirable requirements and equal opportunities i. ensure gender race etc monitored from application form- if i can help with this please ask as i worked in discrimination issues especially in emloyment    best wishes  xxxxx

 

Thank you for allowing me a voice in this process. It is much appreciated. Whilst I am sure there is justification for paid employees to be taken on I would be glad to receive further information on the employment plans.   It is not clear to me whether the membership will have sight of the job description, or not. In a continued spirit of transparency, which, admirably, you seem to have adopted, I would be interested in receiving more information as the plans to take on employees develop. I hope you get the support needed to proceed.  Many thanks  xxxxxxx

 

The level of remuneration should reflect the dedication and professionalism Duncan has brought to bear during this protracted campaign.  In principle, I fully endorse and support this course of action 100%.

 

I approve on the basis that the renumeration is not in any way excessive. I would not like to see MUST become an organisation that constantly needs to raise funds just to pay salaries.

 

An organisation such as MUST can only take the next step on the ladder to true global growth if it pays key employees. I certainly support the principal of part of my subscription going towards remuneration of employees.

 

I hope that all positions other than Duncan's will be filled by an open and transparent process.  As for the internship we should be paying the NMW if s/he is a worker.  Otherwise perhaps we should seek a contract for services.  I am happy to explain why I say this but you do NOT HAVE to ring me unless these are unclear.

 

This is a positive way forward.

 

By all means Keep Duncan Drasdo his commitment is awesome there is nothing wrong in paying him so he can give all his energies to the cause.

 

Suitable controls shold be put in now to prevent abuse in the future as staff / volunteers will change over time.

 

It's about time Duncan got paid. 12 years withought pay is way beyond the call of duty.

 

2 points:  a) the graduate internship should be properly remunerated - no-one should be expected to work for nothing more than the opportunity (patronising attitude) to acquire work experience   b) I would not be happy with a pay structure which included bonuses - if this is what "incentive based component" means

 

as long as the wage that is given is showen to the members and is open to anyone with the credentials to do the job

 

I feel pretty unhappy that we haven't done this years ago.  The sooner the better.  See message below.

 

This is long overdue!

 

I dont know the size of your funds and any yearly profit figures are these available to each member. If so can you e-mail xxxxxxx

 

Having met Duncan for several times and read his media reviews I am wholeheartedly a supporter of this proposal.

 

Only no more than minimum wage.

 

WE MUST INSURE THE PEOPLE WE EMPLOY EVEN PAID MUST HAVE THE INTEREST OF THE CAUSE FIRST AND FOREMOST.

 

Ansolutely against any move away from a voluntary organisation setting out to achieve the agreed objectives to one which will inevitably become a diffrerent one with paid people pursuing personal goals.

 

As I started reading the proposal, my first instinct was to question whether a cost/benefit analysis has been undertaken to determine whether the appointments would have, firstly, a positive impact on the campaign and, secondly, whether any such positive impact would result in a positive, or at least, zero, net cost to the organisation. As I read on, I realised that these matters had been clearly considered and that the committee has made a reasoned decision in this matter. To be honest, I really don't know why I was concerned, MUST is the most professionally run volunteer organisation I have ever belonged to and the committee deserves all the support the membership can provide for us to attain our ultimate goals. It is probably overdue that we take this next, important, step in the growth of our organisation.    From:  xxxxxxxx

 

I'm 100 % confident, you'll find the right decision

 

As the Bible says, 'The labourer is worthy of his hire'. Good idea.

 

It will come at some time.

 

I agree that it is high time to compensate a paid stay, and Duncan, for all the work they do supporting MUST.  I wholeheartedly approved of this motion.    xxxxxx, Virginia, United States

 

I agree but from where is the cost covered?

 

I think it is a brilliant idea.

 

As some of the less high profile events i have attended such as game screenings in the must marquee , have gone somewhat wrong or bean disorganised . Totally agree now is the time to show that we are serious and profesional in our events and desire to rid the club of the glazier family . xxxxxxx

 

This was supposed to be a joint high interest account for money to be put in order if the club was up for sale the supporters would own a part.  If the board get paid, where does that money come from? With power and high pay comes corrupt people who couldnt care about football clubs or their supporters.  Look at Blackburn Rovers for example.

 

Maintaining the high standard is important.  Of course it makes sense to take on paid employees.

 

Conditional on any remuneration package being realistic and appropriate

 

i do not oppose this ,as long as these positions do not adversely effect the financial stability of the organisation

 

subject to satisfactory funding in place to pay for the position

 

It's about bloody time Duncan got paid that's for sure.  Having paid employees will only enhance the MUST organisation.

 

hi i trust you guys to do the best for united .keep the faith     best regards  xxxxxxxx

 

What ever is best for the club to drive it on and if that means paying Duncan Drasdo well I'm happy with that even if it means a change in the membership fee.

 

You want to make it big, gotta do it professionally :)

 

It sets the wrong precedent for ALL of the volunteers.

 

The only proviso is that there is no mention of the amount to be paid; therefore I do support this proposal but really would need to know the outlay before full support can be given.

 

This seems a very sensible move and I approve wholeheartedly.

 

I'm happy for paid employees at least for the key people and cover expenses for the rest.

 

I would like to know what the remuneration package would be, assuming you go ahead, of the CEO. There should certainly be an incentive based element, but do not set it too low, as this could be seen to be counter productive. I believe a paid CEO and one other paid employee is adequate.    xxxxxxxxxx

 

I believe the best person for the job should be put in post, not purely based on ones passion for the cause even though that should be one of the main criteria.

 

I assume that any costs would be funded from the subscriptions & donations rather than any funds that are ear marked for taking back United. What uplift in subscriptions & donations would be needed to fund the CEO & new roles.

 

I don't know how you have managed to run such a professional organisation without having paid employees. I think it is about time we had them. Also Duncan is worth every penny he has not been getting - now it is time to give him something.

 

As long as the money for the salaries won't be taken from any member's fund.

 

Can't believe that Duncan is considering dipping Into the pot , its just like the glazers ! Do the job for free , or give it up there ate plenty of people who have had or are still doing similar roles , if I had known about this I would had actively campaigned against must becoming a jobs for the boys fund   xxxxxxxx

 

I am a little unsure about the use of interns by organisations of all kinds.   Interns are increasingly being used as a source of unpaid labour and irrespective of their desire to support a cause, it is important that young people are not exploited... especially in the current economic situation. So while I support the payment of the CEO and the appointment of the campaigns manager, I can not support the appointment of an unpaid intern. I would however support the appointment of an intern on a 'living wage' - a model that should be adopted by all.

 

If a professional footing is required for the dispensation of any of MUSTs objectives it is my belief that it should be contracted out to the the best service provider possible. Confusion between support for our cause and professionalism will lead to irrelevance at best and MUSTs downfall at worst.

 

A bit like the glazers then not so different hey ?

 

Huge well done to Duncan and the rest of the Board and all involved at MUST for sucess so far on a voluntary basis.

 

As long as people with an accounting background agree that MUST can afford the salaries involved

 

I believe this can be done voluntarily. I have offered to assist previously for free and have had no response. I am a corporate lawyer, and can do for free what you are suggesting paying someone for.

 

Yes but would someone with a high profile be better, eg ex player with VERY HIGH standing?  Thank You  Please keep up the good work  xxxxxxxxx

 

I feel this is a good idea, we need to move to the next level now and become even more of a profesional organisation,   regards xxxxxxxx

 

This pre-supposes that we have te funds to pay such employees.  I would hate for us to go into debt in order to pay someone who would cost us more than they generate.

 

I approve, but I'm concerned as to where the funds will come for the salaries. Will we have an increase in our annual fee as a result? If so, by how much?

 

I am just grateful there are individuals who have more time than i to dedicate to the cause we all care about.  No objection to paying if you feel it is justified.

 

In a world of committees and their changing make-up, views, objectives and priorities inevitably change, when the members change. From bitter experience, it is very important to ensure that these changes do not adversely affect paid staff. It is highly unfair to employ someone, only to dispense with their services shortly after when new board members decide to do things differently. Of course, boards must be free to pursue their own course, but any human cost must be minimised. Consequently, certain protection needs to be built into their terms of employment. Similarly, the organisation will not want to get a reputation for 'hire and fire'.

 

Should have been done in the past.  Keep the process of appointments/payments completely transparent at all times in keeping with the ethos of the organisation.

 

I Think we All should do this for free and dont let Money do The talking we are not like The glasers only Money hunters   If i have to pay for some employees i just A's Well pay for The glasers to  Thats my wiev

 

A good idea.

 

I would probably approve of the proposal if I knew how much remuneration is proposed.  A proposal which potentially places the organisation in financial jeopardy is not acceptable.

 

The MUST should have full time staff as we want to seriously challenge the machinery of Glazer. We need stay on course as this is a long marathon and will require the determination and  resource for this mission. However, the board should ensure the financial health of the organization and provide transparency in its dealing.  I am in full support.    xxxxxxxx

 

anyone who expects you to continue without paid help is crackers!

 

I think this is essential to attract and retain the right talented people for the job.

 

A serious organization, needs serious individuals who dedicate their time, the next step is to ensure we have those individuals

 

It's a no brainer but thanks for asking

 

These employees must be proven United supporters.

 

We need to hear more of what MUST is doing on a regular basis

 

I feel only KEY members should be paid.

 

A very good idea, Duncan needs to be retained in our organiseation.

 

dependent on the size of the salary of course

 

keep up the good work

 

We do need to be careful not to drain the funds that we are looking to use to get into the club. The people we take on should be self funding (should generate more cash than they are paid in salaries) as is usual in business. I would like to see further details of what the full time employees will be working on and how that contributes to our goals.  xxxxxxx  - Do not call this costs money, but do consider above and answer in general communications.

 

No problem with this proposal but when are we goinfg to up our campaign to oust the Glazers ? What is happening?We need some concrete  action at OT to deprive limit their fundsat the expemse of the teams.Our inability to really compete in the transfer market has really caught up over the last season or two. Where is our action plan to HURT GLAZERS???

 

So long as this is affordable.

 

If it it's affordable and will help the cause, it's a no brainer. Go for it and keep up the good work.    xxxxxx

 

How are the MUST going to fund this? Could this funding not be used towards buying share capital if and when it becomes available? Although reading the survey questions it looks like a decision has already been reached!

 

The salary for the positions should reflect the responsibilities of the posts and should not be performance linked . There should be no provision of a bonus package.    The posts(s) of work experience (intern) should carry a salary  to cover general expenses of say up to 10k a year. It would be unfair for anyone to work for nothing even in an exciting area as MUST. If the post is part time (uni student?) then the salary could be reduced slightly to cover travel and a contribution to general living expenses.

 

with reference to point 2 below I think MUST should pay a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. I find the idea of interns working for low or no pay unacceptable

 

I have no problems with certain people being paid a salary.  It is only fair now that the organisation has grown and the consequential workload has increased.

 

I feel this is going no where.  In hindsight as soon as we lost the 2500 vocal supporters to FC who were prepared to demonstrate and make life uncomfortable for the management we had lost.  I stopped going to United 3 years ago and have given up completely now after 35 years following them all over the country and Europe.I think the idea of MUST intially was good but a few green and gold scarves is not going to change anything.The only way this could be changed is by using the money donated to buy a supporters pub /club near the stadium to be used  as a focal point and way of passing on information and life needs to be made uncomforatable for the management of the club. MUST it seems to me is petrified of upsetting AF.

 

The MUST group was set up by volunteers to help the fans for the fans, it would be a great shame to start off paying people to do a job as that is all it would become "A job"

 

The Board of MUST has my full support in appointing a salaried CEO and I would recommend Mr Duncan Drasdo who has proven to be the ideal candidate for the position over the last 12 years. I Move.

 

How many paid hours will they [interns] be working. Is it a full time post as I assume in the case of our MUST CEO Duncan Drasdo.

 

Salaries will be disclosed to members but as a guide we anticipate that the basic salary will be lower than the average UK salary and certainly significantly lower than the average salary payable to a person with comparable responsibilities and qualifications.    As the once chairman of a UK voluntary organistion, do not feel the need to be too holier than though, as it were. Pay people what they are worth, and you will get them to do the job properly

 

I strongly suport this overdue  proposal, particularly regarding our CEO.    Appreciation (obviously not monetary) should also be shown to his wife who has given her amazing unstinting support.

 

Given the long term objective of assisting in the buy back of the club,such appointments must be reviewed regularly to ensure that they are self funding, and do not reduce our capital base.

 

Time to be professional.

 

I think more opportunities for members to volunteer their time and efforts should be established to help minimize any expansion of these types of positions. There are plenty who would help and want to help if we knew some of the needs and opportunities.

 

There is a limit to the volunteering capacity. With the vast membership and long term goal to get ownership of the club it makes sense to go down this road. Again if there are talented people willing to work for less than they might expect with a comparable organisation then this is admirable.  xxxxxxx

 

I do agree with this proposal with the emphasis on a results based bonus over and above the basic salary.  I am now retired but was a main board Managing Director paid on a salary + results based bonus and to me this is the fairest form of remuneration.

 

I think it only right and proper that Duncan is paid for his work; as you say, it is long overdue.

 

If you think its the best way forward to fight the cause i will vote with you to reach how goal.  xxxxxxxxx

 

excellent idea...to quote a certain Cameron [although he doesnt believe in it] ...We the UNITED family are in it together'.

 

No problems in taking this course of action as long as the salaries are reasonable. Anything in excess of £100K should be  sanctioned by the members, not the board.

 

however a tight control will be required on administrative costs and suggest the directors set a % target

 

I trust that the salaries will be "market rate" for the work done and not likely to cause embarrasment if they had to be justified at, for example, an AGM.

 

They should get well paid if the effort and reults are good.

 

Not sure it is going to make a difference to get paid employees, but Duncan definitivly deserves some kind of compencation.

 

I pledged money in preparation of supporting Man Utd in the event of the Glazers collapsing the club.  I did not intend for my money to be used to pay a wage.  Is this the beginning of a paid heirachal chain within MUST!!!!

 

We ought to be paying Duncan a reasonable amount - certainly a bigger basic salary than the average UK salary IMO. By all means, pay bonuses for  achieving certain targets - eg, size of membership - but surely MUST can afford a decent basic?

 

I know Duncan personally, but that does not cloud my judgement on this issue. He, or any other Red with the same intelligence and integrity as Duncan, deserves to be paid a living wage commensurate with the huge demands of the role. Give him what he is long overdue, even if that means upping the subscription to MUST. xxxxxx, Red since  '76.

 

This is an appointment to be welcomed.

 

No

 

if we are to continue with our aims then maybe a paid employee(s) will be the way ahead

Duncan yes......why are you suggesting a graduate [intern]?  Someone with brains, common sense and their feet on the terraces please.

 

If this is approved, it will signal the beginning of the end for MUST.  The costs associated with taking on paid employees (the number will grow rapidly from two or three) will cripple us and it is a fact of life that to get the best you have to pay the market rate and offer the chance of success.  This is not what I signed up for. We are a protest group. Once we begin to pay individuals to work on our behalf, we become no better than the present owners ..... and they have deeper pockets.

 

Wholehearted agreement - if we are to progress then this move is needed. Keep up the good work - if there is any justice in this world then the Americans will be ousted.  xxxxx  [But no need to cal!!]

 

Anything that helps us to become a more professional organisation, that is therefore taken more seriously by the outside world is to be welcomed

 

I feel it does not stand for MUST and we should not get into the slippery slopes like the Glasers.

 

Wrt CEO  I fully support this idea but am curious as to how this will affect membership fees.    Wrt Internship:  I am sceptical as to whether you will be able to recruit a graduate intern with the skills/experience that you want without being willing to pay "the going rate" for such an individual.  It may be that you have to compromise and get a newly qualified graduate with less experience if you would prefer to keep wages to a minimum, this may not actually benefit the campaign at all and may prove more of a hinderance.  The other problem with keeping wages below competitive level is that eventually the incumbent will want or have to move on in order to fund themselves going forward, therefore the process will have to begin all over again.  I would prefer MUST to invest more in wages to get the right person who is committed for a substantial period (5 years?) rather than try to keep costs down and risk having several different interns in that same period.  It may also be that you change the job title!

 

If practical, they [interns] should be paid at least the minimum wage.

 

why a graduate?

 

I'll go with your proposal and am assuming that you've all done your homework on the costs involved.

 

I agree as long as pay packets are fair, recruitment is fair and the employees earn their money in this difficult economic climate. I also feel that people willing to do the jobs for free should be used in preference and those paid must be strongly passionate about the cause.  xxxxxx - only call if you want to, I've nothing much to add!

 

Proposed remuneration packages should be made available to members prior to full approval.

 

The idea is sound, but there is a need for this to be self fianancing.

 

The question 1 above does not state  an employee but employee's question 2 says 1 graduate, but Q1 does not state A) on this occasion/date? & B) any tick box just could mean you have voted that MUST "could" take on any amount of staff as the member has voted to approve an unspecified amount (eg: employees) As long as this does not set a president, for the board to just add staff or extra staff whenever it wants, which will eat into "fans" donations, at XYZ's £'s - the funds wont last long.  Good Luck, but be more specific with your questions in future. God Bless MUFC.

 

about time, fantastic effort on voluntary basis, but paid employees will professionalize and take to a new level. Could also (reluctantly) offer consultancy services to other fan based organisations looking to match MUST, Scousers ETC

 

If we are to continue to be taken seriously, we MUST as a matter of urgency bring to the organisation the professionalism that can only be achieved by full-time professionals.  Long overdue. Full speed ahead. I, for one,  would be happy to pay an increased membership.    Well done.  xxxxxxx. Ireland.

 

Keep up the good work and thanks for all the unpaid word.

 

It is time we stopped trading on the goodwill of Duncan et al, in order to make sure we are ready to take advantage of any opportuinty that arises. All the best,  xxxxx

 

You could probably also do with appointing someone with legal/finance experience as well (probably at a later stage)... obviously the CEO and Digital Marketing posts are essential .. but if so, also need legal/finance back office to maximise the financial clout of their marketing drives. Although qualified in both, I'm not volunteering as I am fairly fully occupied with present and forthcoming grandchildren for the foreseeable future of about 3/4 years ... Happy New Year and keep up the good work.

 

This ought to get our organisation more professionally recognised.

 

On a trial basis to ensure progress is made. The profile of the organisation needs raising further and more positive results seen to keep people behind the cause. The last thing required is a further split of United fans.

 

Any way to enhance the work that MUST is doing has got to be a move forward.Keep up the good work.

 

It's long overdue. Any organisation with our scale of ambition and challenges must have the best people.     The best people do not, should not and cannot afford to, lend their talent to a cause pro bono for ever.

 

ABOUT TIME WE PAID FOR THE TREMENDOUS WORK CARRIED OUT ON OUR BEHALF

 

I agree in principle with the proposal but would like to see the details of what the role entails plus what it's key and measurable objectives are.

 

I fully approve the proposal and would only ask that salaries are set and reviewed by the Board and/or remuneration sub-committee with decisions formally recorded.

 

I do not think salary should be disclosed to all membership only to Board and Remuneration Committee.

 

I must admit to having some reservations about this but as I've not done any voluntary work with MUST, who am I to say anything against paid staff???   My chief concern is that reserves of cash will surely diminish!

 

PAID C.E.O. IS FINE    SLAVE WAGE INTERN IS NOT ACCEPTABLE PAY A PROPER SALARY

 

You have given no idication of how this is to be funded. I cannot vote for the proposal without this knowledge

 

I entirely accept your reasons to take on these professionals.

 

reluctantly but at this stage cannot expect people to continue to give their time to the extent needed to progress

 

Strongly endorse Duncan Drasdo. He has been a tower of  strength to MUST. The idea of a graduate intern is good. The ideal person would be media savvy; skilled at IT applications and on-line messaging; and ...... a Man U lover!!!

 

It looks like the Glazers won't be leaving soon enough so having full time staff to keep the pressure on them is a good use of resources.

 

what needs to be done needs to be done

 

Whilst what has been acheived by MUST has been incredible you sooner or later reach a point that to take it on to the next level it may require  an amount of investment to give more drive (as say with a football club for example).  Whatever happens we must get the glazers out ASAP .  The impact that they have made on the infrasturcture of the club is now beginning to emerge as we see that monie's that could have been re-invested in the playing side youth and ground developement have been frittered away by the debt and their dubious ''expenses.'' Anybody who had the 'it will be OK' attitude whilst we continued to collect trophies are now seeing the devastation that 'they' have caused and whilst in the short term we have had a level of success, the manner has not been with the style and swagger you associate with Manchetser United Football Club.  Short term investment and glory do not count and United have never been soley about winning. It represents an institution that has standards that are required and if we are fortunate enough to have success then that is a by-product.    Keep the red flag flying .    xxxxxxxxx.    A happy New Year to all.

 

I think it was only a matter of time. You cannot expect members to carry on indefinately without some form of renumeration. I think MUSTs board have worked incredible hard so far for the love of the club. Many many thanks.

 

Whilst I still believe in the ultimate aim of fan ownership, I feel that MUST acts unprofessionally on a regular basis. Its communications regularly show intentional ignorance and sensationalism.

 

A "passion for the cause" is essential.

 

No more than Duncan deserves, he is a fabulous man for the cause

 

a huge thank you to all of you for defending the true interests of our club so valiantly.

 

Any employees of MUST should be on fixed term contracts with specific and challenging targets which, if not met, will result in termination of the contract without compensation. Staff on normal Contracts of Employment are exceedingly difficult to remove and staffing problems consume an inordinate amount of managerial time

 

I don't know how you've managed for so long without doing this!  I run a campaigning organisation, so I know how important it is to have high quality, committed and paid staff!  If you want to know which websites we advertise on, where we get great applicants, do get in touch on xxxxxxxxxx.

 

I do approve of the board's proposal to take on paid employees as I appreciate the effort involved.    I would like for there to be robust safeguards in terms of setting the level of pay to ensure it does not become excessive. I also feel it is important to assess the progress after say 3-6 months to ensure that taking on paid staff is having the required effect in terms of membership, incomes, etc.